Let me recommend a blog...

If you have a spare moment this weekend and you have not already seen this blog, I recommend it.  For several weeks now I've been reading Writing with Celia.  Her Friday post was really a good reminder of things I should know and need to keep reminding myself.  The post Poetry Revision 101, Lesson Four: Do I Sound Fat in This Poem?  As the title implies she has been doing a series of these poetry revision posts.


On another note... weather turned out fine for last reading last night in Excelsior Springs.

Tackling Poems You Think You Love

Often in my earlier writing I would find that I wrote something that had promise but on the whole was clumsy or lacking in any lyrical quality or maybe just pretencions. Very rookie mistakes for any poets. It became a common problem to really rework these pieces. Cosmetic shifts here and there but you become so married to a particular aspect of the poem that you find you simply cannot go beyond a certain point.

Last night I pulled out one such poem and began reworking it. I spent over an hour on it and the real victory was that I was willing to tackle it at all. This morning I'm thinking that while it is much improved, I'd like to really take it apart some more and see if I can take it some other direction altogether, and what that might look like.

Five Reasons Poets Should Revise

1. Keeps poets busy and off the street.
2. Creates illusion of being more productive.
3. Provides more fodder for critical review.
4. If you throw enough shit against a wall, some of it sticks.
5. I once heard someone else say, "Rewrite, rewrite, rewrite!"

untitled draft

A voyage riddled with holes
Bled upon the waters;
Defused pink liquid—

Briefly marking the position
As time slowly ran though the motions
Of a trip [journey] that died a slow death [listing at sea].

* untitled 1-22-08
**revised 1-23-08

With the good comes a dilemma

As the year draws to a close, I find myself looking back on my work this year with both a satisfaction and a quandary about the future.

My success rate with getting material published has been the best ever this year. I think in part due to more aggressive submission efforts than past. Still, I do feel that I have managed some outstanding pieces of work over the year and this is a result for growth in my work.

I've placed a greater emphasis upon revision of my poems and keep them back longer in many instances then in the past. The dilemma I am facing is the feeling that the method I have relied upon for workshoping work is broken. There is not sufficient consistency available among my existing sources to be able to simply be satisfied with how this is working.

I have met in the past with another group at a local library for this purpose but there were only a couple of us writing poetry and the rest were fiction writers. It was not a good match and I discontinued my participation.

Our local poetry chapter has at times been a source of input, but we do not meet solely for the purpose of workshoping and while it proves helpful at times, it is not a situation where there are other who regularly use it for this purpose and as such I do not want abuse the meeting time.

There are others with whom I have in the past exchanged work by email for the purpose of workshoping and that has worked well at times, but more recently it seems again, a one way street. It is not a good thing when I am more regularly working on stuff and others have little or nothing to send. I am a firm believer that everyone needs to feel the benefit of such a process. Lately, (and perhaps it is due to the holiday season) everyone else seems to be at a standstill. At any rate, as I look ahead to the new year, I must figure out how to deal with this challenging issue.

A pitiful bird

Thanksgiving day is over, but there are leftovers and plenty of things to remain thankful for. My oldest daughter living in Phoenix informed of of her 8 lb turkey. Eight pounds? I thought, ok, they bought a bird indigenous to Arizona. I mean what could it find in to eat there? Besides in the heat it would sweat off any fat it was otherwise unlikely to accumulate. So youngest daughter (like her father) especially enjoys turkey wings. Youngest daughter is also having Thanksgiving Day meal with oldest daughter. No one else is interested in fighting over wings. Which is a good thing. Poor bird probably had inch and a half wings. :: add inappropriate chuckle here:: I think I've seen larger Cornish hens.

It's crazy.... As I sit here at 7:15 AM there are actually people all over this crazy city that got up and went to malls and stores that were opening (some as early as 4 AM) early with special deals. Those poor souls in some cases had to get there and stand in lines that formed like 2 hours before opening. So like about 5 hours ago. Crazy Crazy People. Amazon lets you be crazy shopping like a fool from your home for Black Friday deals on all kinds of things.

On the actual subject of poetry, I did manage some rewriting yesterday. With success, I might add. Still, at one point I felt a bit of writers burn out coming on. I don't know what triggered it. It happens from time to time. I think mostly it seems to be associated with some overwhelming anxiety - not necessarily even related to writing. At any rate, it appears past for the moment.

Read a fun piece from Poetry Foundation dot org titled 1,1,2,3,5,8, Fun - What's a Fib? Math plus poetry. Their basis is the Faonacci sequence. The number of syllables in each line of the poem is the sum of the previous two lines: 1,1,2,3,5,8. It becomes a six line twenty syllable poem. I though I'd play around with it a bit and seewhat I can create. It's not at all new, some of you may have already been writing them.

Wow... here is a surprise! The Amazon Kindle is out of stock already! They only went on sale Monday.

e-publishing?

Worked on some drafts & finished up one poem this weekend. Sent out three more into the world. Also did some brainstorming. So I would say it was a productive weekend. Also read a few poems.

I was interested to see several news items crop up on e-book readers. I had thought these items were like dead on arrival. Apparently some think not. Amazon is unveiling the new Kindle e-book reader Today in New York and Sony launched an upgraded version of its Sony Reader lat month. And The Wall Street Journal quoted an executive's estimated that e-book sales range between $15 million and $25 million annually. Still, in an industry that generated $25 billion in revenues last year that seems to me pretty small. I personally have downloaded e-books rarely, and I'm not sure that having a portable reader would change that much. I realize they do have some positive points including the environmental friendly nature but is there really that much potential for e-publishing?

"In working on a poem, I love to revise. Lots of younger poets don't enjoy this, but in the process of revision I discover things." ~ Rita Dove

I heard Charles Simic talking about the great thing in writing poetry is discovering things about yourself. How true!

Poetry Revision Part 2

I am revisiting the "revision" subject of my earlier post with a few thoughts.

For my own part, I have been hanging on to my own work longer lately. I think there is value in revisiting work after a bit of a break from it. I read where the Roman poet Horace believed one should wait nine years. I'm not sure you can call any specific period of time extreme in the context of a single piece of work, but I'm not planning any such length as a matter of personal procedure. I do believe that we create a distance from the work when we put it away and bring it back out later. That distance can improve our perception of what we are saying.

In an article written by Nina Shengold, titled Perennial Voyager - John Ashbery at Home, Ashbery speaks of endless revisions in his younger days. Today, he days, " If I'm not pleased with something, I tend to discard it rather than reworking it to death." I'm a huge Ashbery fan, but I don't see myself trashing a lot of stuff... or do I?

If one looks though my journals, there are quite a few instances where I have something with a squiggly sort of strike through the text. I suppose these are throw-aways, though I haven't thought much about them in that context. There are certainly many other things I've started that are not completed poems yet, I have not given them the disapproving strike through. These I will on occasion go back to and rework. I did one this weekend, which I started last May. There are however, times when I will indeed abandon a piece of writing that I believe has failed the very basic level of having viability. Then I have tons of material that are like little unborns already on life support... while I've thinking of a cure.

I would of course like to believe that I could create successfully without revision. I won't however kid myself on this point. Few of us are John Ashbery's. Still, in a way, what he is doing is revision by elimination. With the number of successfully completed books he has, I'm sure he is not concerned with the quantity of work he is producing, even at his age.

Write, patience, reading, rewriting, patience, writing, reading..... it is all a part of the process.

Poetry Revision Part 1

Rewrites, revisions, whatever you want to call them require a writer to examine something already committed to a page. Early on, I probably viewed revisions in more a negative light than a positive one. Not overtly, because I don't recall it as such and I don't recall thinking about it much at all. I am sure now, thinking back this was a subconscious thing.


For the young writer I think there is an urgency to create work. There were times I knew a rewrite was necessary and I did them. There were no doubt times I didn't, yet should not be satisfied. I suppose it is a part of maturing as a writer that we learn not to be in such a rush. Awkward as it may be, I am learning this. This is an especially difficult lesson for one to learn when they did not start writing till later years and feel their life rushing along before their very eyes.


I did a survey of readers on my blog as to how many times on the average they would rewrite a poem. The results are of course not representative of a scientifically controlled survey, and the response was not near as many as I would have liked, so we are dealing with a very small universe.

The Question was this: On the average, how many revisions do you do of poems you write?
The results are as follows:

• 3 or less 14%
• 4-10 57%
• 11-25 14%
• 26-50 14%
• more than 50 0%

I suppose it should not surprise me that the biggest response came in the 4-10 range. At first thought I would have placed myself in that category based on nothing more than a perhaps less than educated guess. But as I pulled out a few drafts of things I've written more recently, I decided that I really am more likely in the 11-25 range on an average, but closer to 11 then the higher end of the range. I've had a few like one titled Night Wishes that came almost spontaneously and as I recall tweaked I think two words in it from the original draft. Things like this however are rare.

I know people who firmly believe the first thought on paper is the best and don't like to make changes because of the belief that something subliminal has lead them to write a great truth. I find subliminal influence on writing very interesting but I don't subscribe to any notion that there is something sacred about the first thoughts to reach the page.

I have marveled at the assertion by Donald Hall that he has rewritten poems hundreds of times. The poem White Apples about his father's death took him 17 years to write.

I think there is a comfort level that must come only with maturity in writing that allows you to slow yourself down a bit and really look for the right words in the right places in your poems. One of the benefits of getting work accepted in various venues and waiting for them to come out is that it has allowed me not to be in such a hurry to get something new to send out. In fact of my last four accepted poems, two have been older ones that have hung around a while.

More rewrites are not always going to make a better poem but I think some level of rethinking is always critical. In fact I now like to put a poem that I feel is finished back and revisit again a week later. Sometimes what sounded good a week ago leaves you thinking what you might have been drinking when you stopped and put it aside. I have taken the rewrite process to an extreme and found that I was getting further from what I wanted, not closer. There is obviously nothing magical about the number of drafts but I think a willingness to try new language or approach is critical to growing as a poet. Sometimes shaking up the poem by reversing the beginning and the end, or rewriting a first person into another viewpoint.

If I am having trouble getting started with new stuff, I find that it is sometimes go back to old journals and pull out something unfinished, or really rough and work on it from a new perspective.

I've got more to say on the topic but I don't want to unload it all tonight. Besides, I'm interested in other perspectives on the value of revision and the process others use.

supersized sigh

I am mulling over in my mind a number of questions relating to poem revisions. I am not sure if I will be finished with this and ready to post over the weekend or not, but just to alert you, I hope that when I do, it will be something that will create further discussion.

Is is Friday isn't it.... yep! [supersized-sigh]

I looked at the Fred Thompson campaign site yesterday. Very nicely put together and very void of specifics on issues. I guess he believes people will just like his down home style and to hell with where he would take us. Do I sound cynical yet?

This is good news: Judge Rejects Parts Of New Patriot Act
The government investigators must have court's approval to order businesses such as internet service providers and telephone companies to turn over records without telling customers.

The court found that government orders must be subject to meaningful judicial review and that the recently rewritten Patriot Act "offends the fundamental constitutional principles of checks and balances and separation of powers."

For John Ashbery fans: check out-> Perennial Voyager

Last Day of Survey On Rewrites

Today is the last opportunity to participate in the survey of poets on their revision practices. See the left sidebar and take the survey if you have not already. There are about 12 hours left till it closes. Thanks!

I beseech you, don't make me beg...

I’m scaling down this weeks summit and being careful, but not particularly graceful in my descent. Monday and Tuesday were relatively speaking manageable days. Wednesday was on the other hand, one of those days where it all falls apart and topples down on you. So today, I continue down the incline, but with concern as not to create an avalanche behind me.

There are but two days left for people to respond to my survey on the sidebar about rewrites. I want to blog some next week on revisions and while such a survey is of course not scientifically representative of the poet population as a whole, it will give me some idea as to what readers here might consider their norm. So please, don’t make be beg, (I look so undignified) if you haven’t done so already, take a moment to respond.

Couple of bits from my journal this week:

• The lady up the street powered up her nose / in a mammoth snub / I flashed an Indian corm smile / like I wanted her approving curtsy
• Afternoon slumps / Holding its hands in its pockets
• I would watch her sleep / Sometimes in silent fog
• You popped my bubble wrap / In italicized arrogance / I popped yours in return

Workspaces...

A worthwhile slide show called Workspaces: Donald Hall - - A Slide Show can been seen here. Thanks to Cindy for the link.

Couple of other items....

Thanks to those who have responded to the rewrite / revision survey in the side bar. It's still open so please respond if you haven't.

I still have a few of my broadsides, Give Me Some Everyday Religion a poem of my own with an Anne Sexton epigram on it. If you'd like one. just e-mail me with your address.

Revisions...

I want to talk about revisions of poetry in the near future. In the meantime, if you've been writing poetry, please take the survey in the sidebar on the revisions. Think in terms of the average number of times you are likely to revisit a poem to consider making changes. Getting a better idea how others approach this could make this discussion more informative.

Five was all I could do

Yesterday, we tried a family outing to Waterworks Park to play Disc Golf. The course there is much bigger than what I have played on. It is challenging enough, but the killer for us was the oppressive heat and the steep hills. We were ready to play hole 6 when we decided we could not go on. We had already decided that 18 holes would be too much, but we were hopeful we could get the front 8 in. We won't talk about my score.

Tomorrow, I have a reception for Dana Gioia to go to. Then Saturday night I have a reading to do so there are some extra curricular art events going one this week. I think I need to focus on some rewrites this week. I didn't have much success with new stuff over the weekend. Time to revisit old ideas.

Dream, Dream Go Away....

Thanks Jilly for the link to the gem If only Bush would have read a little poetry first ... ~0~

Worked on rewrites of two drafts this morning. One was a pretty rough draft. The other was in much better form. They both progressed well in my rewrites this morning.

I hate it when I am writing and I am drawn to a word I am particularly fond of, but know in this instance, a better would for the purpose at hand exists.

A few words I am particularly fond of:

• embellish
• portal
• poignant
• endowment
• precipitous
• supercilious
• conciliatory
• bane

*Note: none of these had anything to do with poems I was rewriting. They are just a few works that I am especially fond of.

~0~

Dream: Okay, I had this dream the other night ( I won't go into all the details) and I was in a parking lot at an apartment complex. My wife and I were carrying things in (I think we just moved in) and I was gathering up all these clothes in the back seat... the clean and the dirty together, like I was trying to get them all, or at least as many as I could at once. They kept falling and flopping around as I tried to gather or swoop them up in my arms and I realized there were all these sharp (kitchen type) knives among them.... but I kept right on going.

I'm sure some wise dream interpreter out there is going to tell me what this all means. What I think it means is that sometime in the near future this will find a way into a poem I write.